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	<title>Comments for Semantic Computing</title>
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	<link>http://www.seco.tkk.fi/blog</link>
	<description>Making computers and the web more intelligent and interoperable!</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:46:42 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on A faceted bROwSEr by any other name&#8230; by oisuomin</title>
		<link>http://www.seco.tkk.fi/blog/2007/08/25/a-faceted-browser-by-any-other-name/comment-page-1/#comment-132</link>
		<dc:creator>oisuomin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:46:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seco.tkk.fi/blog/2007/08/25/a-faceted-browser-by-any-other-name/#comment-132</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the addition Jakob! I have to admit I&#039;m not that familiar with the OLAP world, but I take your word that this is the same idea.

By now it&#039;s pretty obvious that the same, or similar, idea has been reinvented many times in different CS fields and contexts with everyone coming up with their own terms. I wrote the above post from a lumper&#039;s point of view (see  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumpers_and_splitters ), because I think that having dozens of terms for the &quot;same&quot; paradigm (in a broad sense) doesn&#039;t exactly help finding relevant research and previous work.

Eetu&#039;s suggestion of &quot;view-based query constraining and visualization&quot; may be general enough to cover all cases, but for the purpose of finding relevant information it doesn&#039;t help much to coin a new term that nobody uses (currently zero hits for the phrase on Google). But if you want to avoid unwanted connotations like faceted classification, that may be a good approach.

BTW, Giovanni M. Sacco rejects &quot;faceted search&quot; in his recent papers for the same reason as Eetu, but he advocates &quot;dynamic taxonomies&quot; which seems to exclude maps, timelines etc. And the mSpace people got around the problem by calling their interface a mSpace.

I personally still think that the reference to faceted classification is not a bad thing to have, and that richer knowledge models, spatiotemporal data etc. can be incorporated as extensions of the facet model without having to invent new names. A splitter obviously wouldn&#039;t agree...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the addition Jakob! I have to admit I&#8217;m not that familiar with the OLAP world, but I take your word that this is the same idea.</p>
<p>By now it&#8217;s pretty obvious that the same, or similar, idea has been reinvented many times in different CS fields and contexts with everyone coming up with their own terms. I wrote the above post from a lumper&#8217;s point of view (see  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumpers_and_splitters" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumpers_and_splitters</a> ), because I think that having dozens of terms for the &#8220;same&#8221; paradigm (in a broad sense) doesn&#8217;t exactly help finding relevant research and previous work.</p>
<p>Eetu&#8217;s suggestion of &#8220;view-based query constraining and visualization&#8221; may be general enough to cover all cases, but for the purpose of finding relevant information it doesn&#8217;t help much to coin a new term that nobody uses (currently zero hits for the phrase on Google). But if you want to avoid unwanted connotations like faceted classification, that may be a good approach.</p>
<p>BTW, Giovanni M. Sacco rejects &#8220;faceted search&#8221; in his recent papers for the same reason as Eetu, but he advocates &#8220;dynamic taxonomies&#8221; which seems to exclude maps, timelines etc. And the mSpace people got around the problem by calling their interface a mSpace.</p>
<p>I personally still think that the reference to faceted classification is not a bad thing to have, and that richer knowledge models, spatiotemporal data etc. can be incorporated as extensions of the facet model without having to invent new names. A splitter obviously wouldn&#8217;t agree&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on A faceted bROwSEr by any other name&#8230; by Eetu MÃ¤kelÃ¤</title>
		<link>http://www.seco.tkk.fi/blog/2007/08/25/a-faceted-browser-by-any-other-name/comment-page-1/#comment-131</link>
		<dc:creator>Eetu MÃ¤kelÃ¤</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Sep 2007 13:47:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seco.tkk.fi/blog/2007/08/25/a-faceted-browser-by-any-other-name/#comment-131</guid>
		<description>Lately, when being specific, I&#039;ve been using the long term &lt;b&gt;view-based query constraining and visualization&lt;/b&gt;. 

The reasons for this are:
First, I like &lt;b&gt;view-based&lt;/b&gt; better than &lt;b&gt;faceted&lt;/b&gt; because I want to see the paradigm as large as possible, and I think the connotation to faceted classification is a constraint here. Sure, the interfaces o0f MuseumFinland, Flamenco etc. are strictly hierarchical facet, but is a map view of the items still a facet? what about a timeline? What about a semantic autocompletion box that matches concepts all over the different domains?

Second, I&#039;ve expanded from &lt;b&gt;search&lt;/b&gt;, &lt;b&gt;browsing&lt;/b&gt; or the even more abstract &lt;b&gt;navigation&lt;/b&gt; to what is actually done, i.e. &lt;b&gt;query constraining and visualization&lt;/b&gt;. This is to underline the two basic functionalities inherent in the paradigm and to enable the analysis of these two as related to each other. So, in HIBROWSE, there were only views that did both, but in most current systems, there is a view visualization of the results meant only as a visualization - but it uses the same constructs and facets still, and could be used to constrain the search if we only wanted it to be so. I think there is fruitful dialogue to be had in how much particular views are focused on visualization vis-a-vis selection, and what is a good mix.

(and yes, this view of the paradigm comes much closer to the OLAP concept of Drilldown presented in the comment before - however, that too is a word not revealing its contents.)

Finally, to Jakob, I&#039;m not aware of any live datasets online consisting of millions of items. However, internally we&#039;ve stress-tested the MuseumFinland engine with the content of dmoz.org, and found that we could scale that engine up to two million items and 450 000 categories. Our new engine, based on creating efficient custom indexes in traditional relational databases should scale even better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lately, when being specific, I&#8217;ve been using the long term <b>view-based query constraining and visualization</b>. </p>
<p>The reasons for this are:<br />
First, I like <b>view-based</b> better than <b>faceted</b> because I want to see the paradigm as large as possible, and I think the connotation to faceted classification is a constraint here. Sure, the interfaces o0f MuseumFinland, Flamenco etc. are strictly hierarchical facet, but is a map view of the items still a facet? what about a timeline? What about a semantic autocompletion box that matches concepts all over the different domains?</p>
<p>Second, I&#8217;ve expanded from <b>search</b>, <b>browsing</b> or the even more abstract <b>navigation</b> to what is actually done, i.e. <b>query constraining and visualization</b>. This is to underline the two basic functionalities inherent in the paradigm and to enable the analysis of these two as related to each other. So, in HIBROWSE, there were only views that did both, but in most current systems, there is a view visualization of the results meant only as a visualization &#8211; but it uses the same constructs and facets still, and could be used to constrain the search if we only wanted it to be so. I think there is fruitful dialogue to be had in how much particular views are focused on visualization vis-a-vis selection, and what is a good mix.</p>
<p>(and yes, this view of the paradigm comes much closer to the OLAP concept of Drilldown presented in the comment before &#8211; however, that too is a word not revealing its contents.)</p>
<p>Finally, to Jakob, I&#8217;m not aware of any live datasets online consisting of millions of items. However, internally we&#8217;ve stress-tested the MuseumFinland engine with the content of dmoz.org, and found that we could scale that engine up to two million items and 450 000 categories. Our new engine, based on creating efficient custom indexes in traditional relational databases should scale even better.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A faceted bROwSEr by any other name&#8230; by Jakob</title>
		<link>http://www.seco.tkk.fi/blog/2007/08/25/a-faceted-browser-by-any-other-name/comment-page-1/#comment-130</link>
		<dc:creator>Jakob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Sep 2007 09:14:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seco.tkk.fi/blog/2007/08/25/a-faceted-browser-by-any-other-name/#comment-130</guid>
		<description>You should add &lt;b&gt;Drilldown&lt;/b&gt;. Faceted browsing is an application of this Data Warehousing technique from Online Analytical Processing (OLAP) to more general data on the web and with a nicer interface. The connection of faceted browsing to faceted classification is only in the interface and usage but the creation and management is more connected to OLAP. By the way all faceted browsing demos on the web (including MuseumFinland) are tiny games because of its limited size. Do you know of any serious applications with Millions of items?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should add <b>Drilldown</b>. Faceted browsing is an application of this Data Warehousing technique from Online Analytical Processing (OLAP) to more general data on the web and with a nicer interface. The connection of faceted browsing to faceted classification is only in the interface and usage but the creation and management is more connected to OLAP. By the way all faceted browsing demos on the web (including MuseumFinland) are tiny games because of its limited size. Do you know of any serious applications with Millions of items?</p>
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		<title>Comment on RDF &#8211; Hit&#8217;n&#039;run in Doom style by oisuomin</title>
		<link>http://www.seco.tkk.fi/blog/2006/11/23/rdf-hitnrun-in-doom-style/comment-page-1/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>oisuomin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seco.tkk.fi/blog/2006/11/23/rdf-hitnrun-in-doom-style/#comment-19</guid>
		<description>Um, what I meant to say is that some ontologies contain 8bit (unescaped) characters in their URIs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um, what I meant to say is that some ontologies contain 8bit (unescaped) characters in their URIs.</p>
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		<title>Comment on RDF &#8211; Hit&#8217;n&#039;run in Doom style by oisuomin</title>
		<link>http://www.seco.tkk.fi/blog/2006/11/23/rdf-hitnrun-in-doom-style/comment-page-1/#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>oisuomin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:18:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seco.tkk.fi/blog/2006/11/23/rdf-hitnrun-in-doom-style/#comment-18</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s the patch. The problem with some ontologies we have is that they contain 8bit characters, which of course is a no-no, but whatever, this at least unbreaks RDFRoom for that case.

http://www.seco.tkk.fi/u/oisuomin/rdfroom-8bit-uri.patch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s the patch. The problem with some ontologies we have is that they contain 8bit characters, which of course is a no-no, but whatever, this at least unbreaks RDFRoom for that case.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.seco.tkk.fi/u/oisuomin/rdfroom-8bit-uri.patch" rel="nofollow">http://www.seco.tkk.fi/u/oisuomin/rdfroom-8bit-uri.patch</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Inside Semantic Computing by Barbro Viljanen</title>
		<link>http://www.seco.tkk.fi/blog/2006/11/19/inside-semantic-computing/comment-page-1/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbro Viljanen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Dec 2006 21:23:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seco.tkk.fi/blog/2006/11/19/inside-semantic-computing/#comment-7</guid>
		<description>nice work if you can make surfing the net easier - as it is now itÂ´s too easy to get lost and dive deep into trash! Evidently Kullervo has supervised a certain young manÂ´s development from his position at the top of the stairs... Love!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nice work if you can make surfing the net easier &#8211; as it is now itÂ´s too easy to get lost and dive deep into trash! Evidently Kullervo has supervised a certain young manÂ´s development from his position at the top of the stairs&#8230; Love!</p>
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		<title>Comment on konvergointi &#8211; mitÃ¤ se on? by Aki</title>
		<link>http://www.seco.tkk.fi/blog/2006/10/24/konvergointi-mita-se-on/comment-page-1/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>Aki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seco.tkk.fi/blog/?p=3#comment-4</guid>
		<description>Jeh. Oivallinen esimerkki yksittÃ¤isen kÃ¤sitteen semanttisesti hÃ¤mÃ¤ryydestÃ¤ ja kontekstiriippuvuudesta. YritÃ¤ siinÃ¤ sitten konvergoida kÃ¤sitteelle yksikÃ¤sitteinen URI :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeh. Oivallinen esimerkki yksittÃ¤isen kÃ¤sitteen semanttisesti hÃ¤mÃ¤ryydestÃ¤ ja kontekstiriippuvuudesta. YritÃ¤ siinÃ¤ sitten konvergoida kÃ¤sitteelle yksikÃ¤sitteinen URI :)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Inside Semantic Computing by ville</title>
		<link>http://www.seco.tkk.fi/blog/2006/11/19/inside-semantic-computing/comment-page-1/#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>ville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seco.tkk.fi/blog/2006/11/19/inside-semantic-computing/#comment-3</guid>
		<description>http://www.tiddlywiki.com/

UI design worth taking a look at, considering semantic web too...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.tiddlywiki.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.tiddlywiki.com/</a></p>
<p>UI design worth taking a look at, considering semantic web too&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on konvergointi &#8211; mitÃ¤ se on? by ville</title>
		<link>http://www.seco.tkk.fi/blog/2006/10/24/konvergointi-mita-se-on/comment-page-1/#comment-2</link>
		<dc:creator>ville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seco.tkk.fi/blog/?p=3#comment-2</guid>
		<description>niin se silmien konvergointihan tarkottaa sitÃ¤, ettÃ¤ silmÃ¤t katsovat aina yhteiseen pisteeseen, eli kun katseen suuntaan vedetÃ¤Ã¤n viiva kummastakin silmÃ¤stÃ¤, niin ne viivat kohtaa jossain (eivÃ¤tkÃ¤ esim ole yhdensuuntaiset.. =)) me katsomme aina enemmÃ¤n tai vÃ¤hemmÃ¤n kieroon!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>niin se silmien konvergointihan tarkottaa sitÃ¤, ettÃ¤ silmÃ¤t katsovat aina yhteiseen pisteeseen, eli kun katseen suuntaan vedetÃ¤Ã¤n viiva kummastakin silmÃ¤stÃ¤, niin ne viivat kohtaa jossain (eivÃ¤tkÃ¤ esim ole yhdensuuntaiset.. =)) me katsomme aina enemmÃ¤n tai vÃ¤hemmÃ¤n kieroon!</p>
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